让煤气罐开口说话 Make the Gas Cylinder Speak

每一家改变世界的公司，起点都是一样的，不是一条头条新闻，也不是十亿美元的估值。 Every world-changing company starts the same way — not as a headline, not as a billion-dollar valuation.

而是一个雏形：一个由“对这个问题念念不忘的人”做出来的粗糙初版。这档节目要找的，正是那些还在埋头打造产品的人，太平洋两岸的 AI、机器人和硬科技创始人，从硅谷到深圳， It's a prototype: a rough first version built by someone who couldn't stop thinking about the problem. This is the show that finds those people while they're still building — founders in AI, robotics, and frontier tech, on both sides of the Pacific, from Silicon Valley to Shenzhen,

以及一切未来正在被亲手拼装出来的地方。我是 Gavin，这里是《Prototype（雏形）》。 and everywhere the future is being put together by hand. My name is Gavin, and this is Prototype.

2024 年 2 月，在内罗毕一个叫 Embakasi 的社区，一座非法燃气仓库在半夜发生爆炸。三人遇难，近 300 人受伤。钢制的煤气罐被抛出数百米，直直砸进人们家中，而他们还在睡梦里。那是 In February of 2024, in a Nairobi neighborhood called Embakasi, an illegal gas depot exploded in the middle of the night. Three people were killed, nearly 300 injured. Steel cylinders were thrown hundreds of meters straight into people's homes while they slept. That is the

一件每天都在悄悄发生的事的极端一端，它发生在非洲、南亚和东南亚，以及被科技世界遗忘的乡村社区，那数以亿计的厨房里。全球有超过 7 亿户家庭，用的是装在金属 extreme end of something that happens quietly, every single day, in hundreds of millions of kitchens across Africa, South and Southeast Asia, and the rural communities the tech world usually forgets. More than 700 million households cook with gas that comes in a metal

罐里的燃气。而对他们中的大多数人来说，那个罐子就是一个黑箱。你不知道里面还剩多少，直到它在你做晚饭做到一半时耗尽。你不知道它是不是在漏气，直到你闻到味道， cylinder. And for most of them, that cylinder is a black box. You don't know how much is left until it dies in the middle of dinner. You don't know if it's leaking until you smell it,

甚至更糟。你更不知道，卖气的人有没有老老实实把它灌满。 or worse. And you don't even know if the vendor filled it honestly.

而真正触动我这位嘉宾的，是这样一件事：硅谷已经给一切都装上了传感器。 Here's what struck my guest: Silicon Valley has put sensors on everything.

我们的手表、门铃、汽车。可就在地球上增长最快的能源市场里，在最需要安全的那些地方，紧挨着家里灶台的那罐易爆燃气， Our watches, our doorbells, our cars. And yet the tank of explosive gas next to the family stove, in the fastest-growing energy market on earth, in the places that need safety the most,

却依然是一件你只能靠“晃一晃、猜一猜”的东西。最能从这项技术中受益的人，恰恰是从来没有人为他们打造它的人。于是他动手了。他的公司做的是一件很简单的东西： is still something you shake and guess. The people who could benefit the most from this technology are the ones nobody built it for. So he did. His company makes a simple thing:

一台放在任何煤气罐底下的智能秤，让这个罐子终于开口说话。但在这个简单产品的背后，是一个大得多的野心：成为一整块大陆、乃至它之外那些服务不足的市场，如何做饭、取暖、驱动日常生活的“智能层”。这位是 Mike a smart scale that sits underneath any cylinder, and finally makes it speak. But underneath that simple product is a much bigger ambition: to become the intelligence layer for how an entire continent, and the underserved markets beyond it, cook, heat, and power daily life. This is Mike

Otieno，他从肯尼亚和香港两地起步。而这一期讲的，是如何为那些被科技世界抛下的人而造。Mike，欢迎来到 Prototype 播客。非常荣幸能请你上我们的节目。在开始之前，能先给我们的听众做个简短的自我介绍吗？ Otieno, building from Kenya and Hong Kong. And this is the story of building for the people the tech world left behind. Welcome, Mike, to Prototype Podcast. It's such an honor to have you on our show. Before we get started, can you give a quick introduction for our audience?

好的。我是 Mike Otieno。简单来说，我来自肯尼亚，但目前常驻香港，在这里的一家创业公司。我正在做的这家创业公司，叫 Tulasoft Creative Studio， Sure. I'm Mike Otieno. So basically, I'm from Kenya, but I'm currently based in Hong Kong, at a startup shop here. And the startup I'm working on is called Tulasoft Creative Studio,

它是一家物联网（IoT）解决方案提供商，完全，或者说主要，聚焦于那些服务不足的市场。 which is an IoT solutions provider that focuses entirely, or primarily, on underserved markets.

在我们的播客里，我们总是从剖析问题开始，因为我们认为，这是一家创业公司能否成功最关键的部分，你必须真正解决那个问题。你能不能用非常朴素的 And on our podcast, we always start by analyzing the problem, because we think that's the most important part of a startup succeeding — you have to solve that problem. Can you, in very plain

话，讲给一个从没接触过这件事的人听，你到底想解决的是什么问题？ words, for someone who's never encountered this before, explain what problem you're really trying to solve?

好的。如果我们聚焦到我们的目标市场，也就是那些服务不足的市场，比如非洲、东南亚，你会发现那里缺失了大量现代 Okay. If we zoom into our target market, the underserved markets — this is Africa, Southeast Asia — you notice there's a lot of missing modern

基础设施。这就造成了一些至今没能解决的关键问题。比如说，那里没有管道燃气。所以人们大量使用的，是液化气（LPG）钢瓶来满足能源 infrastructure. And this creates some critical issues that haven't been solved yet. For example, there's no piped gas. So a lot of what people use is LPG cylinders for their energy

需求。而使用它的一大难题，就是通常你对它“看不见”。而且往往，它偏偏在最糟糕的时候出问题，比如当你正在 needs. And one of the challenges that comes with using this is that there's usually a lack of visibility. And more often than not, it happens at the worst of times — when

做饭、正在洗澡的时候。它给用户带来种种不便。这还只是从用户的角度看。 you're cooking, when you're taking a shower. It creates inconveniences for the user. And that's from the user's point of view.

如果说到商家，那还有燃气用尽时造成的生意损失，诸如此类。 If you're talking about businesses, there's the loss of business that happens when the gas runs out, and things like that.

所以我们试图提供一种办法，让你能实时看到自己的燃气消耗，并围绕你的使用情况给出一些提醒。 So we try to provide a way for you to see your gas consumption as it's happening, and to give you some alerts in and around your usage.

那么，有没有一个具体的时刻，毕竟你自己就来自非洲，有没有一个具体的时刻，是你、或者你的联合创始人，撞上了这个问题？某种让你们下定决心“我们应该开一家公司来解决它”的契机？ So, is there a specific moment — because you're from Africa yourself — a specific moment where you, or maybe your co-founder, ran into this problem? Some kind of inspiration that led you to decide, we should start a company and solve this?

我不会说是某一件具体的事，更像是一连串的挫败感累积起来的。 I wouldn't say it's one specific issue — more like a series of frustrations.

举个例子，我常讲一个故事：小时候，我常常被迫顶着一身烟味去上学。 For example, I tell the story that when I was younger, I used to be forced to go to school smelling like smoke.

那是因为早上做早饭的时候，燃气用完了。 And that's because the gas had run out in the morning while you were making breakfast.

于是你只能用替代品，也就是木炭。而这只是其中一种情形。 So you have to use the alternative, which is charcoal. And that's just one scenario.

还有一种情形，是你刚开始工作的时候，那是我的第一份工作。 There's another instance, when you're just starting out at work — it was my first job.

因为你挣得不多，你就很需要这类做预算的工具。 And because you're not earning that much, you need some of these budgeting tools.

而如果你没有这些工具，那么当燃气突然用完时，可能因为那个月情况有变、你用得多了一点，你又完全没有这方面的信息，结果就是你只能手忙脚乱地想办法把晚饭对付过去。 And if you don't have them, then when the gas runs out — because something changed that month and you used a bit more — and you don't have this information, it means you're left scrambling to figure out dinner.

正是这样的一次次挫败，催生了这个想法。我是说，解决这类问题，总该有一个更好的办法吧。 So these kinds of frustrations are what inspired it. I mean, there had to be a better way to solve this kind of issue.

而当我开始深入研究这个话题时，我发现那些统计数据，简直令人难以置信。 And when I started looking deeper into the topic, that's when I found the statistics were incredible.

每年大约有 320 万人的死亡，与缺乏清洁烹饪、或者使用有害的替代燃料做饭有关。 There are some 3.2 million deaths a year linked to a lack of clean cooking, or to using harmful alternatives to cook.

这些数字太惊人了，我心想，我们必须找到办法来解决它。 These stats are crazy, and I thought, we need to find a way to solve this.

这就是我想到 BaseSentry 的缘由。也正因如此，我去联系了一些我在不同场合认识的同行。 And that's why I thought of BaseSentry. Because of that, I reached out to some colleagues I'd known through different interactions.

我对他们说，我们何不试着来解决这个问题呢？ And I said, why don't we try to solve this problem?

明白了。所以这不只是难闻的气味那么简单。 Right. So it's not just about the bad smell.

那股难闻的气味，还伴随着会伤害人体的有害化学物质。 The bad smell also comes with harmful chemicals that can hurt the human body.

这股气味来自烧木炭。而你之所以烧木炭，是因为用不了液化气，因为它用完了、你却不知道、也没能提前做打算。 So the bad smell comes from using charcoal. And you're using charcoal because you can't use LPG, because it ran out and you didn't know, you didn't plan for it.

所以，这只是这个问题的其中一面。 So that's just one aspect of it.

哦，原来如此。 Oh, okay.

再有，就是因为你在用这些与这类燃料相关的有害替代品， And then, because you're using these harmful alternatives that are tied to these kinds of fuel sources —

木炭、煤油，它们对你的肺都不好。 charcoal, kerosene — they're not good for your lungs.

我明白了。但这里还有一个安全与危险的问题。在中国、美国这样的国家，城市里的人基本上已经不用煤气罐了。 I see. But there's also a safety and danger issue. In countries like China and the U.S., people in urban areas have largely stopped using gas cylinders.

我们很多听众，正在收听的人，其实并不了解使用煤气罐的整个过程，也不了解它实际上有多危险。 A lot of our audience, people listening, don't really understand the process of using gas cylinders, and how dangerous it can actually be.

还有你知道的，那些没被发现的泄漏、灌装不足的钢瓶，你在你的路演里、以及之前和我聊的时候都提到过，比如那种非正规的私下灌装。 And you know, things like undetected leaks, underfilled cylinders — you mentioned this in your presentation and in talking to me before, like informal refilling.

这类事情，究竟有多危险。 Just how dangerous these kinds of events really are.

是的。我是说，如果因为某种原因，有人忘了关掉煤气罐，或者他们买到了有缺陷的设备，导致燃气泄漏， Yeah. I mean, if for some reason someone forgot to switch off the gas cylinder, or they bought some faulty equipment and it leads to gas leaks —

因为通常，只要附近有明火，那就意味着一场随时会发生的爆炸。 because, usually, if there's any open flame, that means it's an explosion waiting to happen.

而这些事故触目惊心。有好几个典型的例子，你只要上网一搜，就能看到各种因为“看不见、不知道正在发生什么”而引发爆炸的案例。 And these accidents are crazy. There are several cases in point — if you just look online, you'll see instances where there are explosions simply because of a lack of visibility, or because you don't know what's happening.

或者是这类情况下发生的燃气泄漏。所以，这是安全层面的问题。 Or there are gas leaks in these kinds of instances. So, that's the safety issue.

而当我们谈到灌装不足的钢瓶时，其实也是在谈消费者权益保护。 And when we talk about underfilled cylinders, we're also looking at consumer protection.

说白了，我花钱是为了买做饭的能源，但因为灌装不足，我付出的钱，比我实际拿到的要多。 So basically, I'm spending money to get cooking energy, but because it's underfilled, I'm paying more than what I'm actually getting.

所以，仅仅是把这样的洞察提供给我们的用户，就是我们正在积极去实现的事。 So just providing this kind of insight to our users is something we're actively trying to achieve.

是的。但还有一个你之前提到过的问题，就是有些不诚信的经销商，其实并没有把煤气罐灌满。 Yeah. But there's also — you mentioned before — another issue, where there are fraudulent vendors who actually don't fill the gas cylinders all the way.

他们故意灌得不够，为的是多赚钱。对吧？ They underfill it to gain profit. Right?

对，对，对。通常总会有一些坏分子，想钻这个系统的空子。 Yes, yes, yes. So, usually there are always bad actors trying to take advantage of the system.

而由于监管没有它应有的那么强、或者缺乏实时监控，总有人想趁机捞一笔快钱。 And because the regulation isn't as strong as it should be, or there's a lack of real-time monitoring, people always try to make a quick buck.

于是你会看到很多人，把气卖给根本无从分辨的消费者，因为如果你买的是 12 公斤、实际只拿到 10 公斤，你是没有办法察觉的。 So you find a lot of people selling to consumers who don't know any better — because if you're buying 12 kilos and you're only getting 10, there's no way for you to know.

但没错，这类人在这些新兴市场里，实在是太多了。 But yeah, these kinds of actors, there are so many of them in these emerging markets.

所以你们想帮着盯住这件事。 So you're trying to keep an eye on this.

我明白了。所以我们知道，煤气罐存在很多问题，从健康、到人身危险、再到不诚信的经销商。 I see. So we understand that gas cylinders have a lot of issues, ranging from health, to physical danger, to fraudulent vendors.

那我们就说到你的产品吧。你的产品，是如何解决这个横跨世界众多角落、如此庞大的问题的？ So let's move on to your product. How does your product solve this problem, which is so large across so many different parts of the world?

本质上，我们让它极其容易上手。你要做的，就是把煤气罐往我们的设备上一放，一放上去，它就开始传送数据，成为你在这个罐子上的“眼睛和耳朵”。 So essentially, we make it very easy to deploy. What you do is just take your gas cylinder, place it on top of our device, and as soon as you do, it starts sending data — it becomes your eyes and ears on the cylinder.

它把这个原本“什么都不会”的物件，变成一个更聪明的设备：一旦有燃气泄漏，或者你从不诚信的经销商那里买到了分量不足的钢瓶，你都能得到洞察和通知。 It turns this previously dumb object into a smarter one, where you can get insights and notifications in case there's a gas leak, or in case you bought cylinders from a fraudulent vendor that aren't the right level.

而如果你是给客户供货的供应商，你还能得到路线优化、由市场驱动的洞察，这一类的信息。 And if you're a supplier selling to customers, you get route optimization, market-driven insights, this kind of detail.

明白。那你们具体是用什么机制来测量燃气的？ Right. So what specific mechanism do you use to measure the gas?

我们用的是重量。基本上，你只要把煤气罐放在设备上，我们就通过重量来监测用量。 We're using weight. So basically, you just place the gas cylinder on top of the device, and then we use the weight to monitor usage.

所以一旦出现异常波动，我们就能判断：好，根据我们之前观察到的规律，凭借我们记录下来的数据，我们可以说，这是不正常的。 So if it spikes, we can understand — okay, based on the previous patterns we've seen, because of the data we're recording, we can say, this is something abnormal.

在这种情况下，为什么重量是衡量安全的最佳指标？因为我并不是煤气罐方面的专家，你们为什么偏偏选择测量重量？ Why is weight the best measure of safety in this situation? Because I'm not a specialist in gas cylinders, but why do you measure weight specifically?

对我们来说，选重量，是因为我们想让它尽可能容易部署。 For us, we chose weight because we wanted to make this as easy to deploy as possible.

市面上现在也有别的玩家，但他们的做法略有不同，你大概需要在罐口装一个垫圈之类的东西， There are other players in the market right now, but how they do it is slightly different — you probably need a gasket that you have to fit on top,

这就给方案的快速使用、快速部署，增加了一些门槛。 which adds barriers to quick use or quick deployment of the solution.

而我们发现，重量是一个能把方案快速铺开给客户的简便办法。 And we figured out that weight was an easy way to quickly roll out the solution to our customers.

所以我们选了它。 And that's why we picked it.

那假设重量急剧下降或者上升，这基本上就意味着燃气在泄漏吗？还是说…… So let's say the weight drastically decreases or increases — does that basically mean the gas is leaking? Or is it...

是的。因为除此之外，我们在设备上还装了一些传感器， Yeah. Because, apart from that, we also have some sensors on the —

我们称之为“传感器融合”。我们有一些空气质量传感器，和重量数据配合使用。 we call it sensor fusion. So we have some air-quality sensors that also work together with the weight.

我们把这些信息结合起来，来判断：好，这看上去是不正常的。 We combine this information together to understand — okay, this looks like something abnormal.

打个比方，在银行里，如果你看到一些看起来古怪或不对劲的交易，你就会触发某种机制把它冻结起来。 So for example, in a bank, if you see some transactions that look odd or off, you trigger something to put them on hold.

我们用的就是同样的思路：一旦有东西看起来不正常，我们就通知到人，让他能再去看一眼，弄清楚到底发生了什么。 And that's the same idea we're using — if something looks abnormal, we let the person know, and then they can take a second look to understand what's going on.

是的，所以其实是三样东西：重量、我们装的空气质量传感器，以及我们此前观察到的历史使用规律。 Yeah, so it's really three things: the weight, the air-quality sensors we have, and the past usage patterns we've seen before.

我明白了。那你们看的是什么信号，你们把重量和空气质量传感器结合起来， I see. So what kind of signals — you're combining the weight and the air-quality sensor.

你们要找的，是怎样一种信号的组合，才能真正说明它是不正常的？ What combination of signals are you looking for that really shows it's abnormal?

你能给我举个例子吗，比如重量下降，再加上某种空气质量，两者合在一起就说明出问题了？ Can you give me an example — maybe a decrease in weight plus a certain air quality, which together mean something is wrong?

对，基本上就是你刚说的。如果它下降得太快，比你以往的用量都快，我们就会触发一个提醒，让人再去核对一下。 Yes, basically what you just said. So if it decreases too fast, faster than what you've done or used before, then we trigger an alert for someone to take a second look.

而如果空气质量同时显示空气里有什么不正常的东西，我们也能据此触发提醒。 And if the air quality also indicates there's something in the air that isn't normal, we can trigger alerts out of that as well.

好。所以，比如晚饭刚吃完，有一个传感器，它感应到我的燃气在飞快地下降，而且空气质量很差，出问题了， Okay. So, like, right after dinner, there's a sensor, and it senses my gas is dropping super fast, and the air quality is really bad, and something is wrong,

于是它会提醒我这个用户去查看一下。 and it's going to ask me, as the user, to go check.

对，对。所以它配有一个 App，一个和设备协同工作的手机 App。 Yes, yes. So it comes with an app — a mobile app that works together with the device.

所以它不只是设备本身。你还有随之而来的手机 App，让你能和这套方案互动，拿到这些信息。 So it's not just the device itself. You have the mobile app that comes with it, which lets you interact with the solution and get this information.

所以还有一个软件的层面。 So there's also a software aspect.

是的。 Yes.

好。有一个软件 App。 Okay. There's a software app.

确实如此。 Indeed. Yeah.

我还在你的路演里看到，你们支持功能机，也就是用非常基础的手机来使用你们的软件。 And I also saw in your pitch that you support basic phones — very basic phone usage of your software.

在你所服务的市场里，为什么支持最基础、最简单的手机，会这么重要？ Why did supporting the most basic, simplest phones matter so much in the market you're serving?

是的。我是说，我们的“北极星”，就是要能服务到市场最底端的人群。 Yeah. I mean, our North Star is being able to serve the very bottom of the market.

而在这些新兴市场里，一件很重要的事，就是数字包容（digital inclusion）。 And in these emerging markets, one of the big things is digital inclusion.

所以如果我们说这个设备只支持智能手机，那就意味着，我们把绝大多数我们本想为之解决问题的用户，挡在了门外。 So if we say our device only works with smartphones, it means we lock out a huge majority of the users we're trying to solve this problem for.

所以我们才为他们提供了这样一种机制，让他们也能用上这套方案。 So that's how we provide them with a mechanism to work with the solution.

还有，对供应商来说，他们也不希望只服务那些已经数字化联网的客户。 Also, for suppliers — they don't want to only work with digitally connected customers.

他们同样想从真实的使用数据里，去理解整个市场。 They also want to understand the market from actual usage.

而那也包括这些只用功能机的用户。 And that means these users who only use feature phones as well.

我明白了。还有一个功能我觉得挺有意思。它叫做，我不确定我理解得对不对，24 小时补气的“智能取气柜”。你能描述一下吗？ I see. There's another feature I find quite interesting. It's called — I'm not sure I understand it correctly — the smart lockers for 24-hour refill. Can you describe that?

好。所以有了 BaseSentry，我们得到的是“可见性”。 Yeah. So with BaseSentry, what we get is visibility.

但这还不是这个问题的完整解法。我们还需要“可及性”。 But that's not the full solution to the problem. We also need access.

所以当燃气在半夜用完时，我们得给用户一个拿到气的办法，万一供应商没法及时送货、或者店已经关门了。 So when the gas runs out in the middle of the night, we need a way for the user to get it — if the suppliers can't deliver on time, or the shop is closed.

你想想，晚上 8 点正是做饭的时候，你的气用完了，而供应商都关门了。 I mean, imagine it's dinnertime at 8 p.m., your gas has run out, and the suppliers are closed.

那就意味着，你得等到第二天才能拿到煤气罐。 That means you have to wait until the next day to get gas cylinders.

而我们提供的，是智能取气柜，让你能迅速拿到气。 But what we provide is the smart lockers, which let you quickly access the solution.

而且我们能提前判断出，谁会需要、或者至少哪个市场需要这类取气柜，这样我们就能提前备好，缩短“断气”到“重新做饭”之间的这段时间。 And we can tell in advance who's going to need one, or at least which market requires these lockers, so we can prepare and shorten the time between running out of gas and getting back to cooking.

我明白了。 I see.

差不多就是这个意思。 As it were. Yeah.

我想聊一聊更偏技术的部分。 I want to talk a bit about the more technical side.

我不是技术人员，尤其是在煤气罐、以及你们做的这些东西这个领域。 I'm not a technician, especially in the field of gas cylinders and the things you're making.

所以你可以想多技术就多技术，但也请尽量讲得让像我这样的人也能听懂。 So you can be as technical as you want, but try to make it so that everyone, like me, can understand as well.

归根结底，这个传感器必须便宜、可靠，而且在联网条件很差的地方还要极其省电，因为你服务的，是世界各地相对贫困、欠发达的地区。 So at its heart, the sensor has to be cheap, reliable, and run on very little power, in places with poor connectivity — because you're serving relatively poor, underdeveloped regions in different parts of the world.

你必须攻克的最难的工程难题是什么？你刚才稍微提了一点， What's the hardest engineering you've had to solve? You touched on this a bit —

我猜重量算是其中一面，因为它是最容易、最快能测的。 The weight, I guess, is one aspect, because it's the easiest and quickest thing to measure.

但你们还内建了哪些别的东西？ But what are some of the other things you built in?

是的。基本上，你已经把背景铺好了，那就是这些设备所处的运行环境。 Yeah. So basically, you've set the context — that's the environment these devices run in.

而这种环境里绕不开的一件事，就是联网。 And one thing that comes with this kind of environment is connectivity.

所以难点就在联网，要确保这个设备在你需要的时候，随时都能把数据传出来。 So the challenge is connectivity — making sure the device is always able to send in the data when you need it.

所以这对我们来说是个大难题。还有就是确保它能在这种打引号的“恶劣”环境里正常运转，那里有很多干扰、很多供电问题。 So this is a huge one for us. And making sure it can operate normally in these harsh, in-quotes, environments, where you get a lot of noise, a lot of power issues.

所以，把这一切都稳住、确保它始终正常运行，我觉得，这是我们正在攻克的最大挑战之一。 So just holding it all together and making sure it runs properly all the time — that's, I think, one of the biggest challenges we're working on.

而我们已经取得了不错的进展，至少在我们目前提供的产品上是这样。 And we've been making good strides, at least in the offering we're providing.

那你们想出了哪些办法，来应对联网这个问题？ So what kinds of solutions have you come up with to counter the connectivity problem?

好。所以我们不用移动数据流量这类东西，而是用 LoRaWAN 这样的协议。 Yeah. So instead of using things like mobile data, we use protocols like LoRaWAN.

这让我们能够发送数据，而且由于我们要传的数据本身，都是非常小的数据集。 So this lets us send — by the nature of the data you're sending, it's really small data sets.

所以我们不需要那么多电，功耗要低得多。 So we don't need as much power — the power consumption is a lot less.

这样我们更省电，同时还能把数据传到更远的距离。 So we save more battery power, and we're able to send it over longer ranges.

所以如果你在一个联网困难的偏远地方，你可以把数据先传到某个我们能接入“边缘”节点的地方，再从那里把数据送上云端。 So if you're in a remote location where connectivity is a problem, you can send it somewhere we have a connection to the edge, and then send your data to the cloud.

所以，用 LoRaWAN 这类协议来传输数据，是我们一个关键的特性。 So using protocols like LoRaWAN to transmit data is a key feature for us.

还有就是在联网上提供冗余。举个例子，我们采用的一种模式，是一种通信模式，让你要发送的数据本身就更省电。 And providing redundancy in terms of connectivity. So for example, one of the patterns we use is a communication pattern that lets the data you're sending save power.

除此之外，还有就是拥有多重身份。这样你就能在不同网络之间切换。 And apart from that, having multiple identities. So you can switch between networks.

比如，你用某一家运营商来传数据。但对于这个数据连接，一旦出问题，你可以切换到别的运营商，只为确保设备始终在线。 So for example, you're using one provider for the data. But for the data connection, you can switch to something else if there's a problem, just to make sure the device is always connected.

而这一切都发生在“边缘”端。所以说到底，是靠技术上、架构上的设计，来降低对联网条件的依赖。 So this happens at the edge. So really, it's technical, architectural design that reduces the demands of connectivity.

我还知道，你的团队，或者是你本人，我不太确定，持有两项美国专利。 And I also know that your team, or you yourself — I'm not exactly sure — hold two U.S. patents.

一项和通信有关，另一项和联网有关。 One is related to communications, the other is about connectivity.

你能描述一下它们，以及它们如何融入你的产品、融入你正在打造的这家公司吗？ Can you describe them, and how they feed into your product and the company you're building?

好，是的，作为一家公司，我们持有两项专利：通信专利，和多用户（multiple-subscriber）专利。 Yeah, so, yes — as a company, we hold two patents: the communications patent, and the multiple-subscriber patent.

通信专利这一项，是我们用了一种算法，让我们在传输数据的同时节省电量。 So the communications patent — there's an algorithm we use that lets us transmit data while saving battery consumption.

说白了，我们传输数据的方式，让我们能用更少的电，也就意味着我们的设备能保持在线更久。 So basically, the way we transmit that data lets us use less power, meaning our device can stay connected longer.

而正如我提到的，联网那一项，说的是能够在多家运营商之间切换，一旦某一家出问题，也能轻松接上另一家。 While, like I mentioned, the connectivity one is about being able to switch between multiple providers, to connect easily whenever there's an issue with one or the other.

我明白了。这两项专利，是你们自己研发的，还是……？ I see. Did you develop these two patents yourselves, or...?

不是，其实我们是从松下（Panasonic）和诺基亚（Nokia）那里拿到的。我们参加了一个活动，还拿了一等奖，那个活动叫 IPHatch，我们因此赢得了其中一些专利。 No, actually, we got them from Panasonic and Nokia. We took part in an event where we won first prize — it's called IPHatch — and we were able to win some of these patents.

所以我们等于是用上了一些他们目前闲置不用的资源。 So we were able to take advantage of some resources they currently aren't using.

因此，由我们来把这些专利商业化，就更说得通了。 So it makes more sense for us to commercialize them.

哦，所以那是类似诺基亚办的活动？那到底是个什么样的活动？ Oh, so it was like a Nokia event? And what kind of event was it?

它叫 IPHatch。它做的事情，基本上是这样：有一些跨国公司手握大量专利，他们把这些专利开放给像我这样的创业者和其他人。 It's IPHatch. Basically, what it does is: there are some multinational corporations that hold a lot of patents, and they make them accessible to startups like myself and others.

所以，取决于你在哪里看到了价值、或者它能为你的创业公司带来什么价值，这些专利就是可以拿的。 So depending on where you see value, or the value it adds for your startup, the patents are made available.

你去申请，然后为它们做路演竞争。我们和其他创业公司一起参加，最终赢得了两项专利，一项来自松下，另一项来自诺基亚。 You apply, and then you pitch for them. So we did this alongside other startups, and we won two patents — one from Panasonic, and the other from Nokia.

嗯，好。所以那是类似一场路演比赛，对吧？ Hmm, okay. So it was like a pitch competition, right?

对，是一场路演比赛。 Yeah, it was a pitch competition.

我明白了。嗯，这就很说得通了，因为他们一定是联网这些方面的真正专家。 I see. Well, that makes a lot of sense, because they must be real experts on connectivity and things like that.

对，对，对。 Yes, yes, yes.

那真的很有意思。好。你产品的另一部分，我猜这大概是一个更长远的愿景，就是它有一个 AI 层，用来分析和监测燃气。 That's really interesting. Okay. And another part of your product — I guess this is probably a longer-term vision — there's an AI layer to it, about analyzing and monitoring the gas.

那你能描述一下这个 AI 部分吗？ So can you describe the AI component?

好，其实这并不是什么长远的事，它是我们现在就在做的。 Yeah, so actually, it's not a long-term thing — it's something we're doing now.

简单说，分析这一块，我们用到了机器学习的元素。 So basically, the analytics part takes advantage of machine-learning elements.

所以这可以说就是传统意义上的 AI。能够发送提醒、理解使用规律、识别欺诈、检测燃气泄漏。 So this is just traditional AI, as it were. Being able to send alerts, understand usage patterns, detect fraud, detect gas leaks.

这是我们现在实实在在在交付的东西。而在它之上，我们再加上 MCP，也就是模型上下文协议（Model Context Protocol），让你可以通过各种应用来交流。 So this is something we're really delivering now. But then, adding on top of it, MCP — the Model Context Protocol — so that you can communicate through the apps.

所以，无论是通过你的手机、网页应用，甚至是 USSD（功能机上的短代码），你都能用自然语言和你的煤气罐对话。 So whether it's your mobile phone, the web app, or even USSD, you can interact with your gas cylinder in natural language.

说白了，你是在和你的煤气罐对话，来搞清楚它什么时候会用完、预计什么时候用完，这一类的细节。 So basically, you're talking to your gas cylinder to figure out when it's running out, when it's going to run out, these kinds of details.

那么这些都是技术层面的事，而你是公司的 CTO（首席技术官）。 So these are all the technical aspects — and you're the CTO of the company.

是的，是的。 Yes, yes.

那你的背景是什么？我只是好奇，在你创办这家公司之前。 So what was your background? I'm just curious — before you started this company.

好，在这家公司之前，我做了 17 年的软件开发。 Yeah, so before this company, I did 17 years in software development.

其中大部分，嗯，至少有七年，是在香港。 I worked most of it — well, at least seven years — in Hong Kong.

也就是说，来香港之前，我在肯尼亚做了 10 年。基本上都是后端开发、物联网、能源方向。 So, 10 years in Kenya before moving here. Basically, back-end development, IoT, energy.

所以其实和我现在做的非常相似。只不过我们现在换了一个要解决的问题、或者说应用场景。 So basically, very similar to what I'm working on now. Just that we've now changed the problem, or the use case, that we're actually solving.

但和我目前在做的，非常相似。 But it's very similar to what I'm doing at the moment.

那挺有意思。是啊，就像是一套高度可迁移的技能，只是换了一种产品。 That's interesting. Yeah, it's like very transferable skills, just a different type of product.

对，正是如此。 Yes, exactly.

那么，问题我们懂了，解决方案和技术我们也懂了。 So we understand the problem, we understand the solution and the technology.

但我们来聊聊生意吧。你们最终是怎么赚钱的？ But let's talk about the business. So how do you end up making money?

硬件和软件是如何结合在一起，让你们实现盈利的？ How do all the hardware and software come together for you to profit?

本质上，我们分三块来做。一块是硬件。 So essentially, we do it in three parts. There's the hardware part.

一块是数据。再有就是我们同时提供的报告服务。 There's the data part. And then there's the reporting we also provide.

硬件这一块，我们是按生产成本卖给客户的。 So for the hardware, we sell it to customers at cost of production.

所以我们在设备本身上基本不赚钱，但它非常便宜。 So we don't really make a profit on the device — but it's really cheap.

现在它的定价是 25 美元。而由此，我们能获得一些使用数据，也就是用户在使用中产生的数据。 Right now, it's going for $25. And from that, we get some usage data — the data the users are consuming.

所以我们拿到全部数据后，能生成报告，提供给供应商、监管机构、政府部门，甚至是对这类数据感兴趣的金融机构，这些数据来自我们用户的使用规律。 So we get all the data, and we can generate reports we provide to suppliers, regulators, government agencies, or even financial institutions interested in this kind of data — data that comes from our users' usage patterns.

除此之外，我们规划中的一件事，是向市场上的其他玩家提供 API，让他们也能从我们用户的使用规律中获得洞察。 And apart from that, something in the pipeline for us is to provide APIs to other players in the market, so they can also get insights on the usage patterns from our users.

我明白了。所以还有一个订阅的层面，因为有软件，再加上单纯卖硬件。 I see. So there's also a subscription aspect, because of the software, combined with just selling the hardware.

是的，是的。 Yes, yes.

好。 Okay.

所以订阅收入来自商家这一侧，也就是分销商、餐厅这样的商家，以及其他更大的玩家。 So the subscription comes in from the business side — the distributors and other businesses like restaurants, and other bigger players.

我在你的路演材料里还看到一个非常有意思的点子，就是用燃气消费数据来做类似信用评分的事。 There's another very interesting idea I saw in your pitch deck — using gas consumption data for things like credit scoring.

你能展开讲讲吗？比如，谁想要这些数据，为什么它值得被拿来打分？ Can you unpack that? Like, who wants the data, and why is it worth a score?

以及，这为什么重要？ And why is this important?

好问题。如果你看看我们瞄准的市场，传统上，那里有一大批没有银行账户的人。 Good question. So if you look at the markets we're targeting — traditionally, there's the unbanked.

所以他们一直是“隐形”的。那些通常用来生成信用评分的东西，比如房贷、信用卡记录，在他们那里根本没有，人们也不用。 So they've been invisible. Things you'd normally use to generate a credit score, like mortgages or credit-card records — these aren't available, people don't use them.

而这正是 BaseSentry 正在发生转变的地方，从单纯的液化气消费监测，转向这个数据维度。 But that's where BaseSentry is shifting — from just LPG consumption monitoring to this data element.

在这里，基于使用规律，比如他们多久换一次气、两次换气之间隔多久，这类数据能让我们勾勒出“我们的消费者是谁”的画像。而保险公司对这类数据感兴趣，金融机构也对这类数据感兴趣，因为在此之前，什么都没有。 In this case, based on the usage patterns — how frequently they change their gas, how long between refills — this kind of data lets us form a picture of who our consumer is. And insurers are interested in this data, financial institutions are interested in this data, because right now there's nothing.

所以说白了，我们是在向金融机构提供一种“可见性”。 So basically, we're providing a kind of visibility to financial institutions.

我明白了。那挺有意思的。所以，本质上，燃气消费的方式， I see. That's interesting. So basically, the way gas consumption works —

也就是“燃气消费所体现的可信度”，在金融市场的语境里，其实非常重要。 the credibility in using gas consumption really matters a lot in a financial-market setting.

对，对。基本上就是：这个人多久换一次气？他换气的间隔是不是变长了？ Yes, yes. So basically, how often does this person change their gas? Does it take them longer to change?

基本上，我们看的就是这些消费细节，然后基于它们提供一些分析。 Basically these consumption details are what we look at, and then we provide some analytics off of that.

我明白了。那么，有一个每一位投资人、每一位听众都好奇的问题。 I see. Now, there's a question every investor, every listener is curious about.

市场上有没有已经存在的玩家？答案当然是有，我研究过的一些公司，比如 Amgas、PayGo Energy、Copa Gas，这些只是我自己查到的一部分。 Are there existing players in the market? And the answer is definitely yes — companies I've researched, like Amgas, PayGo Energy, Copa Gas — these are just some I looked into on my own.

它们已经存在很长时间了，规模很可能比你的公司还大。 They've existed for a very long time. They're probably bigger than your company.

那么，面对这些更大的、已有的玩家，你公司真正的优势在哪里？ So what's really your company's edge against these larger, existing players?

你们在做的、和他们截然不同的，是什么？ What are you doing that's just very different from them?

好。我们和这些公司的区别在于，他们是卖气的。 Yeah. So the difference between us and these other companies is that they sell gas.

而正因如此，他们的煤气罐，或者说他们的方案，是“垂直锁定”的。 And because they do, it means their gas cylinders — or at least their solutions — are vertically locked.

意思是：如果你想从你的罐子上获得消费数据或监测数据，你就必须用他们那个特定的罐子。 So what that means is: if you want to get consumption or monitoring data from your cylinder, you have to get that specific cylinder.

而我们不同的地方在于，我们让你不必被绑定在某一家特定的供货商身上。 And what we do differently is we make it so you're not tied to buying from a specific vendor.

不管你用的是哪家的气，你只要把煤气罐往设备上一放，就能立刻开始获得洞察，马上就能用起来，从中得到洞察。 Whatever you're using, you can immediately start getting insights just by placing the gas cylinder on top of the device — and you're off, you get insights from it.

而这一点上，别的玩家那里，你得请专门的技师来做安装。 So with this one — for other players, you have to get a special technician to do the installation.

或者你必须买他们那个特定的煤气罐才能用。 Or you have to buy the specific gas cylinder to use it.

但现在的市场并不是这个样子。所以在很多偏远地方、甚至一些城市中心，这些区域基本上还是空白，因为其他玩家还没进入这些市场。 But this isn't what the market looks like right now. So in a lot of remote places, and even some urban centers, these areas are largely untapped, because the other players haven't gone into these markets yet.

我明白了。那，我是说，你来自肯尼亚，所以你大概亲身经历过这一切。 I see. So how — I mean, you're from Kenya, so you've probably lived this.

在相对更偏远的地方，人们是怎么买煤气罐的？ In relatively more remote places, how do people buy gas cylinders?

反正不是从这些更大的玩家那里买。 Not from these bigger players.

是的，通常就是路边坐着一个人，旁边摆着一堆煤气罐。 Yeah, so usually it's someone sitting on the roadside with a bunch of cylinders.

而如今，大多数人的做法，是靠摩托车叫货，然后有人把煤气罐送到你手上。 And nowadays, what most people do is use motorcycles to call one in, and then someone delivers the cylinder to you.

但这取决于那个人在不在，就是卖罐子的那个人，或者说，有没有一个你真的能打电话叫来送货的人。 But it depends on whether the guy is there — the person selling the cylinders — or whether there's someone you can actually call to do the delivery.

是的，也有一些更机灵的人提供送货服务，但这并不适用于所有市场，至少不适用于我们现在关注的那些地方。 Yeah, there are some smarter guys who provide a delivery element, but this isn't the case for all the markets, at least not the places we're looking at right now.

所以通常还是有麻烦的，你得亲自去，如果你是像我当年那样的小孩，那被派去把它搬回来的，往往就是你。 So usually there's still a challenge — you have to, if you're a small kid like I was back in the day, you'd be the one sent to go get it and bring it back.

所以通常，在你真正能用上它之前，还得来回折腾一番。 So usually there's a bit of back and forth before you can actually start using it.

你小时候，父母就派给你搬煤气罐的差事。 Your parents tasked you with carrying cylinders when you were young.

我都留下心理阴影了。 I was traumatized.

你留下阴影了。 You were traumatized.

不不，我开玩笑的。 No, no, I'm joking.

是啊，挺逗的。所以基本上，现在，在很多乡村地区，或者甚至不是乡村，只是非城市地区，对吧？ Yeah, that's funny. So basically, right now, in a lot of rural places — or not even rural, maybe just non-urban areas, right?

比如说城郊。人们从各种随机的小贩手里买煤气罐，但你没法真正追溯这些罐子的来源，对吧？ Maybe like the suburbs. People get gas cylinders from random vendors, but you can't really trace the source of the cylinders, right?

对，对。当然，也有一些更大的玩家，比如壳牌燃气（Shell Gas）、道达尔燃气（Total Gas）。 Yes, yes. Of course, there are some bigger players, like Shell Gas and Total Gas.

他们有加气站，你确实也能从那些渠道买到煤气罐。 They have filling stations where you can actually buy cylinders from those markets too.

但也有一些地方并非如此，而那，正是我们瞄准的人群。 But there are places where this isn't the case, and that's who we're targeting.

所以我们身处的，是那些没有渠道接触到这些东西的偏远地区。 So we're in these remote places that don't have access to these kinds of things.

是的，你提到了缺乏可追溯性。这也正是为什么你会看到很多坏分子，就像我说的那些， And yes, you mentioned there's a lack of traceability. And this is why you see a lot of bad actors, like I mentioned, who —

就像我早前讲的，专门提供灌装不足的燃气。那是因为现在存在一个空白。 like I talked about earlier, who provide the underfilled gas. That's because there's a gap right now.

而我们需要在当下这个市场里，提供某种程度的透明度。 And we need to provide some kind of transparency in this market as it is now.

我明白了。那挺有意思，因为并没有一个现成的玩家，直接卖这种硬件。对吧？ I see. That's interesting, because there isn't an existing player that directly sells the hardware. Right?

硬件，你是指煤气罐吗？ The hardware — do you mean the gas cylinders?

不，是监测硬件。就是那个监测设备本身。 No, the monitoring hardware. Just the monitoring device.

对，没有，没有人只做这个监测设备。所以我觉得，这正是我们可以切入的机会。 Yeah, no, no one is doing just the monitoring device. So this is where I think we have an opportunity to tap in.

不管你用的是什么牌子的煤气罐，可以是壳牌、可以是道达尔、可以是任何一家。 It doesn't matter what gas cylinder you're using — it could be Shell, it could be Total, it could be whatever.

但你都能从这里开始对它进行监测。你不需要非得从 M-Gas 买一个罐子。 But from that, you're able to start monitoring it. You don't need to specifically buy a cylinder from M-Gas.

嗯，我明白了。是啊，那挺有意思，因为你卖的对象是欠发达地区，或者至少那是你的“北极星”。 Hmm, I see. Yeah, that's interesting, because you're selling to underdeveloped regions — or at least that's your North Star.

但你的商业模式里，也有订阅这一块。 But there's also an aspect of your business model that's subscription.

那我猜，相对贫困地区的人，会比富裕地区的人对价格更敏感。 So I'm assuming people in relatively poor regions are more price-sensitive than richer ones.

那你觉得，这个模式从长远看能持续下去吗？ So do you think this model can be sustainable in the long run?

订阅更多是为了让他们“有一点利害关系在里面”，这样他们才会真正在意它。 So the subscription is more so they have some skin in the game — so they actually care about it.

但它没那么关键。它在我们整个商业模式里，占的比重并不大。 But it's not that serious. It's not that significant a portion of our business model.

所以当我们谈订阅时，它其实主要是为了让用户保持参与感。 So when we talk about subscription, it's really just to keep them engaged.

而我们真正赚钱的地方，是来自供应商和分销商。 But where we're actually making the money is from the suppliers and the distributors.

他们从我们这里获得洞察，并为得到这些信息，向我们付一笔溢价。 They get the insights from us, and they pay us a premium to find out this information.

所以从终端消费者的角度看，它其实算不上是订阅。 So it's not really a subscription from the customer's point of view.

所以你设想的是，你的公司卖给企业和分销商，再由他们卖给终端消费者。 So you're imagining your company will sell to businesses and distributors, and then they'll sell to customers.

所以是类似 B2B2C 的模式。 So it's like B2B2C.

对，对。对，正是如此。 Yes, yes. Yes, exactly.

好。然后本质上，是分销商向你支付一笔溢价。 Okay. And then the distributors pay you a premium price, essentially.

对，对。当然，也有一些企业更在意别的细节。 Yeah, yeah. And of course, there are some businesses that care about other details.

比如要有 SLA（服务等级协议）。举个例子，一家餐厅因为燃气没有按时送到，而没法做生意。 Like having SLAs. For example, a restaurant that can't do business because the gas wasn't delivered on time.

光是有这种报告，或者能够做对比，比如，我有好几家门店。 Just having this kind of reporting, or being able to compare — for example, I have multiple sites.

A 店、B 店。为什么 A 店比 B 店用的气更多？ Site A, site B. Why is site A using more gas than site B?

所以这类报告、这类洞察，对我们接触过的一些企业来说，是很有价值的。 So this kind of report and these insights are valuable to some of the businesses we've spoken to.

那挺有意思。是啊。那你觉得，你的公司光靠卖硬件、完全不做订阅，能活下去吗？ That's interesting. Yeah. And do you think your company can survive just by selling the hardware, with no subscription?

我认为可以，因为我们同时还有数据这盘棋。 I think so, because of the data play we also have.

报告和分析这一块，我觉得那里的蛋糕更大。 So the reporting and the analytics — I think there's a bigger chunk there.

那里能赚到的，是更大的一笔。 There's a bigger amount to be made there.

我明白了。你提到你已经和几家分销商、几家企业聊过了，我这么理解。 I see. And you mentioned you've spoken to a few distributors, a few businesses already, I'm assuming.

有没有哪个最大的痛点，是你在跟他们聊之前完全没意识到、聊完才发现的？如果有的话？ What was the biggest pain point you discovered that you hadn't realized until you talked to them? Or if there was one?

有，我是说，我会讲最大的一个，就是燃气监测、以及能不能解决这个问题， Yeah, I mean, the biggest one I'd say is just that gas monitoring, and being able to solve this problem —

对很多这些人来说，它已经是个巨大的问题，而从商业的角度，还没有人在解决它。 it's already a huge problem for a lot of these guys, and no one is solving it yet from a business point of view.

所以，就连我们刚才提到的那些玩家，他们和客户打交道，也都停留在 B2C 的层面。 So even the players we've spoken about right now, they engage with the customer at the B2C level.

但把这种打交道，提升为一场 B2B、企业级的对话，这是眼下还没有发生的事。 But having that engagement as a B2B enterprise-level conversation — that's something that isn't happening now.

所以，是时候对这个行业进行数字化转型了。 So it's time to digitally transform this industry.

我明白了。那你的公司目前处在什么阶段，就获客而言？ I see. So what stage is your company currently at, in terms of customer acquisition?

你们还在打造原型，还是已经进入大量部署产品的阶段了？ Are you still building the prototype, or have you moved into deploying a lot of your products?

我们还在对设备做试点测试，到目前为止，我们已经从客户那里收到了大量反馈。 So we're still pilot-testing the device, and we've gotten a lot of feedback from customers so far.

至少是我们已经完成部署的那五家。我们需要在原型上再多迭代一些，让它足够成熟，能经得起市场。 At least the five we've done deployments for. We need to iterate a bit more on the prototype to get it solid enough for the market.

而这就是我们现在所处的阶段。就是根据收到的反馈打磨，改进整套方案的设计。 And that's the stage we're in now. Just working on the feedback we've received and improving the design of the solution.

确保它能联网，确保我们不出现任何联网问题。 Making sure it can connect — making sure we don't have any connectivity issues.

我明白了。你知道，这档播客就叫 Prototype（雏形）。所以我们想找的，就是真正处在“雏形”阶段的公司。 I see. You know, this podcast is titled Prototype. So we want to find literal prototype companies.

所以有一个我一直特别感兴趣的话题：从零到一，是一种什么样的感受？ So a story I'm always very interested in is: what does it feel like to go from zero to one?

我觉得你已经跨过了那一步。你已经有了一个原型产品。 I think you've already moved past that step. You already have a prototype product.

把一样东西从无到有地造出来，是一种什么样的体验？ What is it like to build something from nothing into something?

我是说，它一开始不过是你脑子里的一个想法，然后你要把它拼凑成形，还要面对把这么多不同部件整合到一起、让它真正跑起来的种种挑战。 I mean, it was just an idea in your head, and then bringing it together — with all the challenges that come with integrating all these different parts and getting it to work.

哦，天呐。那是一种很棒的感觉。而且能够， Oh, man. It's a good feeling to have. And being able to —

其实，最棒的部分，是当它真的为某个人解决了一个问题，而这个问题此前， actually, the best part is when it's able to solve a problem for someone that previously —

对他们来说一直是个麻烦，而如今，因为他们用上了一件从你脑子里诞生出来的东西， this was an issue for them, and now, because they're using something that came out of your head —

对，它成了一个真实存在的东西，而且真的在解决那个问题。那种感觉，真的很好。 yeah, it's a real thing, and it's solving that problem. It's a good feeling to have.

你记得有人在用了你的产品之后，对你说过这样的话吗？ Do you remember someone telling you that after using your product?

我妈妈，其实就是第一个用上这个产品的客户。 My mom was actually the first customer to use this product.

哦，真好。 Oh, nice.

这个问题曾经也困扰过她。我是说，真希望我小时候，就能有这样一套解决方案。 It was a problem for her. I mean, I wish I'd had this kind of solution back in the day, when I was younger.

是啊。但她对这套方案相当满意。 Yeah. But she was quite pleased with it.

那她现在还在用吗？ And is she still using it now?

是的，还在用。所以我们仍在从中获取数据，而且我们正做到能够提前预测，这种情况什么时候会发生。 Yeah, she is. So we're still getting data from it, and we're getting to the point where we can predict in advance when this is going to happen.

然后你就能提醒她：哦，你该做点准备了。 And you can tell her, oh, you need to do something.

这真有意思。你妈妈是第一个测试你 MVP（最小可行产品）的人。 That's really funny. Your mom is the first person to test the MVP.

是啊。没错。 Yeah. Yes.

挺好的。最后一个环节，我想聊聊团队，以及未来的愿景。 That's nice. For the final segment, I want to talk about the team and the vision ahead.

你们目前是个小团队。根据我之前和你聊的内容， You're a small team right now. And based on my earlier conversation with you —

之前你说，你来自肯尼亚。你的其他联合创始人，如果我没记错，来自香港和新加坡。你们是怎么， previously, you're from Kenya. Your other co-founders are from Hong Kong and Singapore, if I'm correct. How did —

不是。 No.

不是吗？ No?

是这样， So...

肯尼亚？ Kenya?

还有新加坡。 And Singapore.

所以创始团队并不来自香港。 So the founding team isn't from Hong Kong.

我们是常驻在香港。 We're based in Hong Kong.

你们都常驻在香港。 You're all based in Hong Kong.

是的。不对，我们有两个人常驻香港，还有一个常驻肯尼亚。 Yeah. No — two of us are based in Hong Kong. One is based in Kenya.

好。所以还有一位，所以你是其中一位，你是来自肯尼亚的其中一位，而还有另一位来自肯尼亚、并且就常驻在肯尼亚的人。 Okay. So there's another — so you're one of the — you're one of the people from Kenya, but there's another person from Kenya who's based in Kenya.

对，正是如此。 Yes, exactly.

哦，我明白了。你们三个人是怎么走到一起的？因为你们的背景差异这么大，地理上、有时甚至文化上都是。 Oh, I see. How did all three of you come together? Because it's like, you're from such diverse backgrounds — geographically, and maybe even culturally sometimes.

是的。有一位创始人，我们是在中国认识的，是在武汉，那还是没人知道武汉是什么、也不知道它在哪里的年代。 Yeah. So one of the founders, we met in China — that was in Wuhan, back when no one knew what Wuhan was, or where it was.

那时候，连我妈都不知道武汉在哪儿。 Not even my mom knew where Wuhan was.

哦，不错。真好。 Oh, nice. Nice.

所以我们就在武汉相遇，聊起了这里面的一些问题，如今我们一起落脚在香港。 So we met there in Wuhan, talked about some of these issues, and now we're based together in Hong Kong.

这里就是我们做生意的地方。而另一位联合创始人，我和他是一起长大的。 So this is where we run the business. And the other co-founder — we grew up together.

所以基本上，从小时候起，我们就在聊其中的一些难题，或者至少说，我们见过同样的难题。 So basically, from childhood, we'd been talking about some of these challenges — or at least, we'd seen the same challenges.

所以他就是那位常驻肯尼亚的人。 So he's the one based in Kenya.

那你们为什么决定，你的公司目前是设在香港吗？ And why did you decide — is your company currently based in Hong Kong?

就是说，你们是在那里注册、也在那里落地的？ Like, you're registered and based there?

是的，我们是在香港注册成立的。 Yeah, we're incorporated in Hong Kong.

你们为什么决定在香港起步？ Why did you decide to start in Hong Kong?

是的，因为对我们来说，香港是一个绝佳的地点，尤其是它通往中国内地的便利。 Yeah, I mean, because Hong Kong is a very good location for us, especially with its access into China.

光是能够极快地拿到我们所需的全部零部件和资源、迅速把东西做出来， Just being able to get all the parts and resources we need very quickly, to develop something fast.

这一点对我们至关重要。因为如果你想做同样的事、在肯尼亚去造它，那物流会是一场噩梦。 that's something very key for us. Because if you were doing the same thing, building it in Kenya, the logistics would be crazy.

还有就是能够在市场上快速迭代。所以香港让我们能拿到快速的反馈，因为我们既能把产品卖进香港，又能把方案部署到肯尼亚。 And just being able to iterate quickly on the market. So Hong Kong lets us get quick feedback, because we can sell into Hong Kong and also deploy the solution in Kenya.

而香港还让我们能进入像东南亚这样的市场，印度尼西亚、泰国。 But Hong Kong also gives us access to markets like Southeast Asia — Indonesia, Thailand.

这些地方和肯尼亚、和非洲有着相似的态势。所以身处一个中心枢纽的位置，对我们是一大利好。 These places share similar dynamics to Kenya and Africa. So being centrally located is a big win for us.

那挺有意思。那在香港创办一家公司、再把它卖向世界不同角落，是一种什么样的体验？ That's interesting. And what's it like building a company in Hong Kong and selling it to different parts of the world?

比如说，这个过程是难，还是相对容易？ Like, is the process difficult, or is it relatively easy?

我是说，好吧，我可以从一家创业公司的角度来讲。 I mean, okay, I can speak from a startup's point of view.

对一家设在香港的创业公司来说，这里非常好，因为整个生态其实相当成熟健全。 So for a startup located in Hong Kong, it's very good, because the ecosystem is actually quite robust.

你能得到大量的支持，无论是导师辅导，还是人脉、与人交流。 There's a lot of support in terms of mentorship, in terms of connections and talking to people.

所以在这方面，落脚香港是相当不错的。 So being situated in Hong Kong in that regard is quite good.

从税收的角度看，它也很合理，而且你还能比较容易地和政府打交道。 It makes sense from a tax point of view too, and just being able to engage with the government.

所以相比其他地方，这一点其实要好一些。不过，好，我要说的一个挑战，大概是物流，至少是我们在肯尼亚、或者说在非洲的市场里做测试、拿到反馈、再把快速方案送回去，这中间所需要的时间。 So that's actually a bit better compared to other places. And okay, the one challenge I'd say is probably the logistics — at least the time it takes us to get feedback from testing in the market in Kenya, or in Africa, and getting that quick solution back.

所以这是我们还在努力解决的事。但我们目前采用的策略，是用香港市场来测试我们的方案，然后到非洲去做部署。 So that's something we're still working on. But the strategy we're using now is to use the Hong Kong market to test our solution, and do the deployments in Africa.

另一个挑战是，香港的市场非常成熟先进。 Another challenge is that the market in Hong Kong is very advanced.

所以这里有一种与生俱来的“数据信任”。 So there's a kind of built-in data trust.

你随手一点，就能得到可靠的反馈。而这，正是像非洲那样的地方所缺失的一块。 You just tap something and you get reliable feedback back. That's something — there's a gap that's missing if you look at places like Africa.

所以，横跨在这两个世界之间，正是我们必须去找到恰当平衡点的地方。 So just straddling these two worlds — that's something we have to find the right balance for.

是啊，但我能看到这在国际上是一个巨大的市场。而且我觉得，中国也有很多地方，人们还在用煤气罐。 Yeah, but I can see this huge market internationally. And I think there are a lot of places in China where people still use gas cylinders.

我对这一点也很确信。 I'm very sure of that too.

对，对。中国这边的一个挑战，是监管要更严格一些。 Yeah, yeah. The one challenge with China is that the regulation is a bit more stringent.

是啊，确实如此。 Yeah, that's true.

对，但那绝对是一个让我们非常兴奋的市场。而凭着“香港公司”这个身份就能进入它，对我们来说是很好的前景。 Yeah, but it's definitely a market we're very excited about. And being able to access it by virtue of being a Hong Kong company — that's very good prospects for us.

是啊。那放眼未来几年，有没有那么一个“成功的信号”，能真正告诉世界，或者告诉任何一个正在收听、正在关注你公司的人：好，他们走在正确的道路上？ Yeah. And looking ahead over the next few years, is there a kind of winning signal that really tells the world — or anyone listening, anyone looking at your company — okay, they're on the right track?

有没有一件你想实现、正在追求的具体的事？ Is there a specific thing you want to achieve, that you're looking for?

我是说，你可以谈我们已经完成的部署数量。 I mean, you could talk about the number of deployments we've done.

这些是投资人爱听的数字，比如，哦，我们已经完成了，随便说，一万次部署。 These are numbers investors like to hear — like, oh, we've done, whatever, 10,000 deployments.

它很重要。但我不认为它是唯一重要的事，因为你还要去看你所带来的影响力。 It's important. I don't think it's the only important thing, because there's also the impact you're trying to look at.

所以，如果我们能看到，我们真的在“正在发生的死亡人数”上撕开了一道口子、或者避免了一些死亡，如果我们能够说，正是因为用了这个罐子，你没有去烧木炭、没有用那些会导致更多死亡的有害替代品， So if we can see we're actually making a dent in the number of deaths that are happening, or that have been avoided — if we can say that, because of using this cylinder, you didn't use charcoal or some other harmful alternative that leads to more deaths —

我觉得，那也是对我们非常关键的一件事。 that's something I think is also quite key for us.

那我想，来到最后一个问题，我们在播客里总会请创始人聊一聊、并且去激励每一个想创业、想从最初就打造一个雏形的人。 So I think, for the final question — we always ask the founders on our podcast to talk about, and to inspire, anyone who wants to start a company, to build a prototype from the very beginning.

那你会对这样一个人说什么：他有一个远大的抱负，想创办一家公司，而且或许像你一样，已经有了丰富的资历和一份稳定的职业，你可是做了 17 年的软件工程，对吧？ So what would you say to someone who has a big aspiration to build a company, and maybe has a lot of experience and a stable career like yours — you spent 17 years in software engineering, right?

然后要从那样的生活里抽身而出，投入一件激动人心得多、也大不相同、但同样充满风险的事？ And to walk away from that life into something much more exciting and different, but risky as well?

是的，我是说，就我自己而言，我在如今做的事情里，无疑要充实、满足得多，正是因为我们至少正在规划、或者说期望，从我们所做的一切中带来的那种影响力。至少，这对我们来说是正在成形的。 Yeah, I mean, speaking for myself, I'm certainly far more fulfilled in what I'm doing now — because of the impact we're at least planning, or hoping, to get from whatever we're doing. At least that's in the works for us.

所以，随着我们所创造的影响，伴随而来的是那样一种成就感。 So there's that fulfillment that comes with the impact we're making.

除此之外，仅仅是能够亲眼看着一样东西活过来，一样曾经只存在于你脑海里的东西，我是说，那种感觉，本身就是极好的动力。如果你真要去做点什么，那种“亲眼看见它成真”的体验。 And apart from that, just being able to see something come to life — something that was only in your head — I mean, that feeling is a really good motivator. If you're going to do anything, just being able to see it.

是的。 Yeah.

没有比这更好的感觉了，我以前就有过这样的经历，没有比这更好的感觉，就是当人们走到你面前，对你说：我看过你做的东西。 There's no better feeling — I've had this experience before — there's no better feeling than when people come up to you and say, I've seen the stuff you made.

是啊，它帮我做成了这件事，还有，怎么说呢，它基本上解决了一个我从前一直有的问题，而现在，那不再是个问题了。 Yeah, it helped me do this, and, I don't know, it basically solved a problem I used to have — and now it's no longer a problem.

那太了不起了。谢谢你，Mike。这是一场非常精彩的对话，我希望或许五年之后，你的产品能拯救很多人的生命。 That's amazing. Thank you, Mike. It's been such a great conversation, and I hope that maybe in five years, your products are going to save a lot of lives.

谢谢你，Gavin。谢谢。 Thank you, Gavin. Thank you.

非常感谢。聊得很开心。 Thank you so much. Enjoyed the chat.

干杯。 Cheers.